Finding Your Path: A Conversation with Eric Lam

00:00 Tim Stoddart All right, bam, we're live. Eric, what's up, man? Thank you so much for joining me on my show. I'm thrilled about this conversation. Thanks for having me. Of course. All right, let's jump right in. I first heard about you not too long ago, maybe two months ago. Ethan, the former co-host in my podcast, RIP Ethan, he does a ton of research on new creators and he found you and he said, man, check out what this guy's doing. That's so cool. At that moment, I reached out to you on Twitter and since then, I'm sure you've had some momentum since before I found you. I'm not that important, right? But since then, I've noticed just a ton of momentum on what you're doing. It seems like you're really hitting a cool spot, like a cool opening in this world of the internet. So I want to jump into that. I want to jump into Reddit. I want to jump into exploding ideas. Before we do, I'm curious, what have you been doing beforehand? Because it's clear that you have some experience. You've done this before, right? It seems like you're recently trying to put yourself out there and try to build a personal brand around it. So before you dove into this, what was your background like?

01:16 Eric Lam What were you doing? So I guess a lot of different things. So when I was in college, I was songwriting and I landed the music for a couple of big television shows. And I had an internship in a recording studio basically in Chicago and I got to be really good friends with the studio owner and we ended up splitting 50-50 on a couple of TV shows basically where I wrote the music, he had the connections and we just kind of did that for a summer and I started getting royalties when I was in college and just reinvesting the money into music. So my initial thing was I want to be a full-time producer. So after I finished that, I went back to school and just reinvested the money and then once I graduated, I was like, okay, I'm going to move to California and just pursue music full-time. So I did that and then I realized how overly political the music industry is and you really need to know everybody. A lot of these people grow up together and it's a very tough industry. So once the royalties started more or less drying up, I went to go work at Universal Music Publishing Group, which is a music publishing company. They represent songwriters like people like Justin Bieber. And I started there as a temp and I was getting paid like nothing and I worked there for 10 months. Then I got hired full-time doing YouTube content monetization and then I basically hit a point where I was like, I need to make more money. I was making like $35,000 a year, so it was like nothing and I was in Los Angeles so I was effectively broke. Yeah, you're losing money. And I was like, the only people that it seems like are really making money here are like the CEO and maybe like one or two other people. Everybody else is kind of just like not really making much. So I was like, what do I need to do to like kind of rise above if that makes sense? So I just started reading a lot of books and I was like, what did these other business people do, whether it be like Sumner Redstone or like Mark Cuban or whoever. I'm just like, if somebody successful as a book, I'm going to read it more or less. And so I just focused on reading a lot of books and that pushed me into my first idea, which was basically taking our YouTube channel at Universal and doing like songwriter master classes and then going out and going to companies like Fender and having them like sponsor the videos. This would be a new revenue stream for the songwriters because that money typically flows to the artists themselves, not the songwriter. So I built a small team around that of like same level people at the company, just like low level people. And we pitched it up the ladder basically. And ultimately went to the CEO and she funded the idea. And then at that point, I broke off and went into business affairs full time where I was just doing market research for like two or three years around different like ideas that we could exploit in the market that are like gaps more or less. So I would like kind of ad hoc just come up with ideas, present them to the executive staff and we would either run with them or we wouldn't. And we had some ideas that we ran with. Some were successful, some weren't. But it was like kind of just like a numbers game more or less. And so I did that for a little while. And then I also started doing deal negotiations with app companies that wanted to have music in their app. And then during the pandemic, when the pandemic hit, I was like, I'm going to do this. I was like, OK, I need to like really double down and like up my skills because I felt like going down this path of just music, I wasn't really going to make anything. And so I learned to code. So I basically took like a bunch of React courses, JavaScript courses, HTML, CSS, that kind of stuff, Python and just focus for like three hours every day. Just take these courses. I was single at the time and I was just kind of sitting in my place and I was like, I have nothing else really to do, so I'm just going to learn this stuff. I was always scared to learn it, but I found some good instructors online and I started watching their YouTube videos. Then I paid for their courses and just really like doubled down on focusing on it. And so I basically took that and then I went to a venture capital firm. I was like, I upped my skills and now I could build websites. I could do all this stuff. And I have a deep understanding of music and I got really into crypto. And I was like, OK, like, I'm going to see if I can get a job in crypto. So basically this venture capital firm, they offered to hire me and we went through like a four month interview process. And then I jumped and I went there. And then after that, I went to one of the portfolio companies and ran. I was head of strategy. So they basically poached me from the the firm. And so all in like in parallel, all through these years, I've also had my own businesses online just because I needed more money when I was working in music. I couldn't afford to live just like on that. And I didn't really see like an end in sight. Like I didn't see like the light at the end of the tunnel of like, OK, now I'm going to be OK because in Los Angeles, if you Google it, you need to be making like seventy five thousand dollars a year to be like comfortable. And I was making thirty five and I was like, I need to make more money. And they have this whole thing where like you're only going to get like if you get a raise or you get promoted, you're only going to get like so much of an increase in pay. So you're kind of rent controlled in a way. So I need to diversify. So I just started building online businesses essentially. And the Reddit strategy was something that came out of that because I didn't really have any money and I needed to be able to test these ideas to see if people would buy my products or whatever it was. And I couldn't spend money on ads. I had to do it organically.

06:50 Tim Stoddart So, yeah, it all kind of came out of that. Hell of a story. I definitely didn't expect you to be in 80 different places in your journey. So you you've built up a lot of experience. I need to take a real quick side quest because you said something there that is so important to me. You said I read a lot of books. I didn't go to college. I'm not a very educated person in the traditional sense, but my parents, I mean, my parents were super young when they had me. And I don't know if that has anything to do with how I grew up or whatever, but they didn't like have a lot of rules in my life. I was never a little bit grew up in a strict household. Let's just say that. But the one rule that I remember so clearly was just like non-negotiable is I had to read 30 minutes every day. And because of that, I've just been such an avid reader my whole life. Like, I'm so grateful for that. And books have had more of an impact on my life than anything. I mean, I'll read anything I can put my hands on. I won't always finish a book if I feel like, you know, this book could have been a blog post. I think that happens a lot recently. But but older books, especially man, like life changing ideas and concepts that I've learned. So now that I've spent enough time talking about me, what books in particular were the ones that had some of those like, oh, shit moments where like, damn, I can actually do this. This makes sense to me now. Are there any that come to mind?

08:26 Eric Lam Yes. So I guess one that I really liked was Sumner Redstone's book. I forget what it was called, but he has a book and it just talks about like his trajectory from like starting out. He was helping run like a family business and then like he just made a bunch of good decisions basically that ended him up to being where he ended up. I mean, he's dead now. But so there's that book that was really good. There was also the Blip Scaling book. He's a media guy, right?

08:57 Tim Stoddart Yeah. Was he like CBS or something? What's he do? Yeah, exactly. Yes. Okay, cool. I was nervous to say that because I don't know for sure. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. Got it. So CBS continues. Sorry to cut you off.

09:10 Eric Lam There's that book. There's the Blip Scaling book by Reid Hoffman, I believe it's by. And there's also one book that really stood out was LA Reid's book, Sing to Me. I don't know if you've heard of this book or read this book. Totally. Have you read it? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So one thing that really like stood out to me from that book was LA Reid for people that aren't, they may not be aware. Basically, he's a big like record executive and he signed Justin Bieber. But he had this whole life before. Signed Pink. Yeah, he signed a ton of people. I believe Usher, like a bunch of really like iconic people. And what I didn't realize was he had a whole life before being a record executive. He was like a music producer and he was in a band and he had these other things that he was doing. And he started out, he didn't have like he was, I believe he was just like not from a great like background. Like he was struggling growing up. And he just like followed his gut and eventually ended up where he ended up. But like it was a series of just like good moves and lucky moves that he made over the years. And he was like he had produced for Michael Jackson. He had done all these songs that were really big. He had signed a bunch of people through his own label. And he really like popped off when Justin Bieber got signed. And that was like I think like 10 or 15 years into his career. And he was already extremely successful by that point. But he was saying in the book that that was a time that he had never seen like the market pull for something or like a lightning in a bottle moment like he had seen with Justin Bieber. And I think that it parallels really well with like businesses in a way, because you don't know what's going to work and resonate with the market. You just don't know until you put it out there and you see it. And I think in the beginning stages, some people, they want to just like go all in on one idea, which is cool. That works for some people. Some people like to roll the dice on a bunch of different things. And in the very early stages, that's typically what I do. I give it like a few weeks for every idea to see like what the market is pulling for and like what can actually get momentum because they're naturally just with a landing page interested in signing up for it or maybe entering credit card and I refund them or whatever it is. And then I finished it's like market testing. And that was just something that really stood out to me. You can just reroll a bunch of things. And when you get to your 10th idea, you could have something that really pops off and people really want. So that's what I try to do now. After I read that book, I'm like, OK, I guess it took him 15 years to get to the Justin Bieber moment. But maybe with different business ideas that I'm bootstrapping, I could just post about them online, post some landing pages and just give it a couple of days. Is anybody signing up? No, kill it. OK, do another one. Then do another one. And until one like really gets a lot of momentum and people are really paying attention to it, just keep trying because it's out there. You just have to find it. It's like digging for gold or something and you just got to keep rerolling.

12:03 Tim Stoddart So I'm so happy I asked that question. Yeah, sometimes sometimes as a podcast host, I feel like I meander too much in conversation and people are always looking for like the real technical like tell me how to make money advice. But I'm always really happy when I do, because that idea that like nobody actually knows anything. So we're on podcast. And if you're listening to this, but if you're if you're watching the YouTube video, I'm going to turn my camera real quick. I got this sign on my wall right there. It says nobody knows anything. And I say it to myself pretty often because like sometimes I think I know what I'm doing. And then like and sometimes I think like, OK, I got this figured out. I'm going to do this and it's totally going to work. And then it just flops. And I have no idea why. And the same is true with the stock market. I mean, you know, look at this isn't an economic show, but look at the American economy right now. Like everybody was so sure we were going into a recession, like no one has a clue what they're doing. And so just approaching approaching entrepreneurship with that mindset of, hey, I don't have to be smart. I just have to like test and observe and test and observe, I think is like it's it's not just practical. It's also very it's a lot less emotionally daunting because there's not a lot of pressure. You just try stuff out. And if it works, it works. And if it works, you don't have to take credit for it. And if it doesn't work, you don't have to take the blame for it. So I'm glad we went there.

13:36 Eric Lam I guess the only thing that I would kind of add is it gets kind of hard like in the beginning stages because you get kind of attached to an idea. And if you're branding it, your website and putting a little effort into it, you get attached to it. It's like your baby. You know what I mean? So I think that for some people and I mean, even for me, like I find it sometimes you want something to succeed because it's like your baby. But it's not really in your control totally because the market either going to want it or they're not. And if they don't want it and you're pushing it down their throat, then your time is probably better off doing something else. So, yeah, I guess like getting out of that emotional state and just looking at data instead could be really powerful. But it's easier said than done.

14:14 Tim Stoddart No question. No question. All right. Thank you for for going down that side quest with me. So let's get into it. Why Reddit? I mean, Reddit traditionally has been. How do I say it? There's like a real strong gatekeeper community around Reddit. It's very, very difficult to jump into a subreddit and just say, hey, everybody, look at me. There's a real traditionalist mindset sort of built into the culture of Reddit. And for that reason, I've always stayed away from it. And I've seen Reddit more as like it's entertainment, but it's you can find information on Reddit that you can't find anywhere else. It's like very, very unique in that way, where there's just such an influx of creative people who see the world from a different lens. And I know that sounds kind of meta, but Reddit really does have that sort of like old school Apple culture. Right. OK. So with that at top of mind, of all the platforms that you could dive into, like, why did you decide to dive into the one that is the hardest to, quote unquote, market yourself on?

15:26 Eric Lam I love that. So it wasn't really a choice. I was like already a Reddit user. I've been a Reddit user for years. Like just naturally, I go on Reddit. I mean, now I go on chat, chat, chat, a lot more. But if I would have a nuanced question that maybe Google wouldn't have the answer to or it may be experiential, I would just go on Reddit. And prior to that, or at the same time, really, when I first started, I would go into Facebook groups. So like private Facebook groups, I would just join them and like just kind of interact with people, if that makes sense. And yeah, I was just kind of like question and answer type stuff. I had a question. Somebody would give me an answer. And then I built a website like a couple of years ago that I was like it was my first one that I was building. And it was like a product that I was selling. I was like, can I get anybody to buy this thing? You know, and it was like a book that I put together for like music. And basically, I posted it in like a Facebook group and somebody bought it within like 30 minutes. And I was like, oh, this can actually be really powerful. And so I didn't end up pursuing that. But I was like, OK, like these groups can be really powerful if you just know how to leverage them. So then I built a different business off the back of Facebook groups. And I parlayed it also into Reddit because I was also a Reddit user and I was like some of these communities are relatively large. If I could just kind of like mirror the same strategy that I'm doing on Facebook groups, maybe it'll work on Reddit, too. And it ended up working. I ended up going number one a bunch of times in some of these music subreddits. And I was OK, this works. And so I built this kind of like music software business that had like fifty five thousand newsletter subscribers. And he was selling like software products. And yeah, I was like, OK, this is cool. I got a profitable in like three months and I was able to build it off the back of Reddit and Facebook groups, primarily like Facebook groups was like my first shot at it. But I was like, right, it's the same kind of thing. It's a forum. How long ago was this? This was in like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen.

17:26 Tim Stoddart OK, yeah, I got it. Go ahead.

17:28 Eric Lam So, yeah, I was just like, OK, it works. And I'm already a user. It wasn't really a decision as far as like this is the hardest platform and I want to crack it. It was more like this is the platform that I know because I'm on it. I don't understand. I didn't understand Twitter at the time. YouTube. I was like, I don't know what to make YouTube videos. It was like Reddit and Facebook were like the only ones that I was really using. So, yeah, some people are like, why did you choose that? But it was like it wasn't really it was just I was already using it, you know.

17:56 Tim Stoddart Well. That's very unique to people with Reddit because there's like a I don't know. I don't want to harp on this too much, but I think you have to actually spend time on Reddit to know what I'm talking about. Like people really get to know each other on Reddit and people can tell if you're an insider or an outsider. Right. And they like shun outsiders. Exactly. Yeah, it's not something that they take lightly. And and so I think you're probably right where you almost had to earn like your reputation inside these communities. So does that the way that you approach using Reddit as marketing, do you spend the first however many days, weeks, months, even like earning your reputation first?

18:41 Eric Lam Is that kind of part of of how you would approach it? I guess it doesn't really have to do with a particular profile, if that's kind of what you're saying, like building rapport around a certain profile or people recognize the name and then know who I am. Exactly. I don't know that like I don't know who specific Reddit profiles are. Like I see them sometimes like pop up in certain subreddits, but I don't know who the people are behind them or what the profile is of that specific profile. That makes sense. Like, I don't know how they typically interact. I just see their name pop up sometimes, and I don't really think about it much more than that. I think that it's just like the way you interact, you know, like the way you talk to people and you like they can just tell they sniff you out. It's a culture thing. Like you have to understand the culture and they can kind of sniff it out based off of if you're interacting in the way that the culture typically flows, if that makes sense. So if you're coming in and you're like, it's the first time and you don't understand the culture or how to interact with it, then they're going to sniff you out. They're going to know that you're just a shill or whatever it is. But if you've been in it for a while and you know how to kind of correspond with these people and what presents value to them and what they want to see, then it's like you're kind of Reddit native, if that makes sense. Does that make sense?

19:50 Tim Stoddart Does make sense. It makes perfect sense for sure. So, OK, let me take a step back because there's a couple of things that I want to personally clarify. You have this brand around you through Reddit, not necessarily the brand inside Reddit. But when I think of you, I think, oh, OK, like the Reddit guy. But then you also have exploding ideas and exploding ideas is your newsletter, which isn't necessarily about Reddit. It seems like it's more upcoming topics, upcoming opportunities. And you use a lot of like a Google search trends to analyze what you think is an exploding market or what could be a declining market. How does that look practically inside your business? Like, is your is your view on Reddit something that you are just using for your own newsletter and you're documenting that process?

20:44 Eric Lam Or is marketing inside of Reddit another business opportunity for you within itself, like autonomously from from exploding ideas? So I guess first question, if this is something that I'm doing within the newsletter. Yeah, this is how I've grown it to where it is today. I think I just hit like eight thousand subscribers. All of them have been from Reddit. And so the idea is like there's so many people running paid ads, whether it's Twitter ads, whatever Facebook ads, Metta, whatever you want to call it. And I just think that they're just overlooking a great opportunity, which is organic growth. And I think that if you can figure out organic growth in the beginning, then you will be able to have tailwinds in your product. And it'll be way easier for you to get basically product market fit and profitability. So if you can basically promote it on Reddit or you can promote it on Twitter and you can get a lot of sign ups for what you're doing, then you have people that just naturally want what you have, because when you use like Twitter ads or Facebook ads, whatever it is, it's designed to work. So, I mean, if you just pay however much money, you're going to get people signing up for it. So, I mean, whether it's a dollar per user sign up or like ten dollars per user sign up, they're going to shove it down people's throats and they're going to get somebody to sign up for it. You know what I mean? Whether in the US or somewhere else in the world, who knows? But they're going to find that person. And I think that if you can kind of solve it from scratch and get it organically going, then it's a different level of just like product market fit in a way. So my idea with Exploding Ideas is I want to show people that organic growth is something that you can do. You don't have to be spending all these money on ads. You will get like a dopamine hit, I guess, and the instant gratification if you do ads, because like it doesn't really take much effort. I mean, in a sense, and you can grow really quickly and all you have to do is kind of pour more money into it. But if you can figure out the organic growth side, you can grow something from nothing, really. And that's kind of how I did my first few businesses. They were just like, I did it with like not that much money, but I figured out the organic growth side and I was able to get to profitability and build like side income for myself. And I think you could do the same thing with a newsletter or any website, really. But the organic growth side cracking that code, once you've cracked it, then I feel like it kind of opens you up to a lot of opportunities. But you have to crack it. And that's really hard for people. And I just want to show people that it is possible. So it's something that I've been doing in the newsletter, leading by example in a way. And just kind of this is kind of the ethos of Exploding Ideas, just like organic growth. So that's the first question. The second one was, is this another business that could kind of live exclusively to or outside of, I mean, Exploding Ideas?

23:29 Tim Stoddart I guess it depends if you're talking about like an agency type business. Is that kind of where you're going with it? I'm not going anywhere with it. I'm just simply inquiring about, do you see this Reddit growth strategy as something that you're singularly using for yourself? Or do you see this as like a separate opportunity in whatever way that might look? Like, are you going to create products around it? Are you going to create a service business around it? Is it something that you have other kind of side hustles that you haven't really talked about that you're using the same strategy?

24:02 Eric Lam Basically, is Reddit a part of Exploding Ideas or do you see Reddit as something autonomous? So I definitely see it as part of Exploding Ideas. And I've been trying to figure out because so many people have been hitting me up on Twitter, like, hey, can you do this for me? Or show me how to do this? Or they just want more. Or can you because I wrote about on Twitter that I had a I trained a VA to do it. So like, I'm not doing it anymore. I have a VA doing it on my behalf. And he's pretty effective with it. And I taught him how to do it. I had him like go through some tests and like I just basically wrote a book for him. And I just like really trained him, if that makes sense. So people are like, hey, you understand this stuff. Can you help me do it? Whether it's through a course or whether through an agency where I do it on their behalf or just some other way. So I've definitely been thinking about it. I'm just like, what's the best medium for it? So I tested like an agency model in July and I hated it. It was like really, really labor intensive. And it was taking a lot of my like headspace. And I don't think the money was like enough to really be like something worth putting that much headspace into in that the people that I was doing it for were so used to paid ads. So I was getting paid for like three, four dollars per subscriber. And organic growth is very different in that, like, it's more speculative. You can make a post on Reddit that doesn't go anywhere. And it gets like downvotes and it gets zero people to sign up for your newsletter or your product or whatever it is. Or you could have one that is pretty similar, but it just resonates so well because of the day or the time or the market sentiment, whatever it is, it could resonate in a completely different way. And you'll get like one hundred and fifty, five hundred, whatever sign ups to your newsletter or website. So it's like very speculative. And I found that I was using my time very speculatively. I was leaning into the VA, so I was working with him, but I really wanted to go above and beyond for these people. And I felt like it was just too much stress, like because you don't hit your you don't hit like the same amount every single day of sign ups. One day it could be zero. Another day it could be two hundred. It's like you're speculating. You know what I mean? So that for me was just like really hard on me. And I was just like, you know, like, is this something that I want to be putting my time into? Could I be maybe doing this as a course and just teaching people that want to pay for it how to do it or just do one that's structured for VAs? So that's kind of where I've been going with it. I'm building this VA Reddit course that I'm basically going to teach your VA how to do it. Granted, they can like think strategically and they're like smart. They can take this course, they can apply it and they can just basically do it and they'll do it for you. And I got eight thousand subscribers through doing this. And if you were to do it through ads, you would be paying thousands of thousands of dollars. But I'll just show you how to do it and you can get organic growth via your VA through this course. So that's kind of the route I'm going with it because the agency model that was really just giving me a headache. And I was like, I feel like my time isn't maybe best spent doing this because I was having to oversee the VA every day. Like, hey, we need to get more subscribers today. Like, it's just like I just I didn't want to do that anymore. I was like, by the end of the morning, I was over it and I was like, I feel like this is a sign that maybe this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing because just mentally I couldn't handle it.

27:21 Tim Stoddart I think that's very honest of you. Agencies are tough. I, I, what's the word for it? I promote freelance and agency work for people when they're starting off because it's a perfect model because there's no upstart cost and they're instantly profitable. And the trick to agencies is figuring out how to get out of the way. But it's super difficult because as the leader, you're usually the one that ends up closing the deals. And then that means that the person that you close the deal with sees you as like on the other end of the hook. So anytime they have a problem, they call you. Right. And like, it's difficult to figure out how to get out of that. And it takes a long time. So it's not for everybody. And I think that's like really honest and smart that you can recognize that before you get buried under under a Reddit pile. You strike me as a guy who still sees opportunities everywhere. I mean, geez, when you were telling your story about how you got here, part of your job was just to come up with an idea, with the idea, with ideas and then pitch them to the executive. I thought that was like very foreshadowing of where you ended up now, because that's basically what you're doing. You're finding ideas and you're presenting them to the public. So with that being said, I mean, how much of what you're building now is bringing your mind into other places saying like, oh, I could do something here. I could do something here. Or do you have that rare and super innate ability to actually just fully focus on the one thing that you're doing?

29:11 Eric Lam So, I mean, it definitely happens. Like if you, I mean, literally researching every day and looking for opportunities. Granted, I was also doing this before exploding ideas, just looking for opportunities constantly, just because I feel like the Internet's kind of like a video game. And if you can figure out a business that works and it's online, it's just like it's all just like video game numbers because the money will hit your bank account or whatever. And I wouldn't necessarily touch it because I save a lot of it. But anyways, it just it all feels like a video game. And so, yeah, I don't know. I think like, sorry, what was the question again? I started going off on a tangent, but what was the question again? Sorry.

29:50 Tim Stoddart Oh, I was just kind of wondering what else you have going on because you seem like a guy that you see opportunities all day. It's basically your job. And do you have the ability to like ignore that and just focus fully on your newsletter?

30:06 Eric Lam Or when you see these opportunities, do you find ways to take advantage of them? It depends. So like from when I worked in venture capital, one thing that I really learned there was you need an edge. And that was always the thing when I was working there when we would. So we had a fund to funds model also where we would invest in other funds because our fund size was relatively large. So basically, we would always ask them, like, what is your edge? What makes you different? Like, why are you going to win in the market? And so for one company, it might be like they're the A16Z of like South Korea or something. Like it was like that, like because most I mean, in venture capital for people that don't know, most of the deals flow to like the biggest funds and then they kind of like cascade down to the lesser known ones that people don't really aren't as interested in. They all flow to like injuries and Horowitz and like benchmarking companies like that. And then they all flow down. So that was like kind of the mentality. Like, what is your edge? You need to define your edge, why you're going to win in that market. And you just need to kind of like lean into it and harness that. So that's always my perspective with finding ideas. So I'm always researching and finding ideas. But whether I pursue them or not, usually I don't because I don't have an edge. Like if I was to go into solar, I mean, I don't have an edge. You know what I mean? I have no background in that unless there's like an amazing like opportunity for me that I know that I could harness. Then I'm not going to do it just because like I'm going to get crushed by all these other people. So I'll put out the ideas in the newsletter that kind of gives me that outlet. All the research and stuff. I'll put it all out in the newsletter. So somebody else that has that domain expertise or they have that background or they have that edge, they can take it and they can run with it. And maybe it'll fuel them to make their own business. So that was kind of the idea behind it. So yeah, I'm always finding ideas, but I don't necessarily pursue them if I have no edge. So I have three things that I'm doing right now. One of them is relatively passive and I've owned it for five years. It's in the music space. Another one is in the real estate space and then there's exploding ideas. And I've had some others throughout the years that I've built the music software one I sold. So yeah, I mean, I'm always looking for ideas. I don't necessarily always pursue them. I need like this is obvious that I could win in this space for me to actually pursue it. And then I'll test the market. See if it's something that people actually want. And I'll take it like one step at a time in trial and error. I'm sure like a lot of people do. Yeah.

32:35 Tim Stoddart Well, I love the idea of what is your edge. That's a very good lens to see something through because this is a venture capital phrase and I can't remember exactly what it is. But basically, as soon as a market becomes viable, it's like already too late, right? Because everybody else has jumped in it. So the only way that people actually win is if they're earlier and a little bit more delusional almost like you're delusional to an idea that shouldn't work, but you have to make it work anyway because or else there's no upside on it. And so seeing an opportunity through that lens, I think is really, really smart. I wish I would have heard that sooner because I've definitely pursued things in my life that something was a bad idea. There was just nothing about me that made my idea particularly unique and different. And so that's cool. I really like that. So let's finish this thing up talking specifically about the newsletter. I love it. So cool. Yeah, such a great idea. I really love… I know that this is very subtle, but in the featured images, I think it's such a cool idea to use the Google Trends chart as the featured image because I don't know if there's something about human beings that see charts. Maybe it's like a tactical thing in our minds. It's got something to do with evolution somewhere because anytime you put a chart in front of people, I notice this on Bloomberg as well. I read a lot of Bloomberg and I'll be reading it. And then if there's a chart, I just always stop. And I'm like, what the hell is it about this chart that has that pattern interrupt? So that's kind of subtle. I know that your newsletter isn't about Google charts, but I just love how your featured images are about the trend, whether it's an emerging trend or a declining trend. I'm going to start with a very broad and almost unfair question here.

34:43 Eric Lam Out of all the things that you discovered, which one is your favorite so far? Out of all the ideas? Yeah. So far, it's got to be the one, the green noise one, which was one of the first articles that I wrote. I think it was number four or five or something like that. That's my favorite one, mainly because I ended up at the end of the newsletter. I did it. So I was like, hey guys, I'm going to show you how to do this. And I think it was like the startup cost to do it were like $20. And I checked my account the other day and my royalty account has like $750 in it. So yeah, it's made an insane profit. And so for that reason, I like that one and it makes money every month now. And so yeah, I really like that one for that reason, specifically, which is easy. It was just identifying a gap in the market that you could take advantage of, really. Don't remember ever reading that. What is green noise? So green noise is like a sleep sound and it's a sleep sound that took off on TikTok. So are you familiar with like white noise? Of course. Okay. So a lot of people- Just like fuzz. Exactly. So for people that aren't aware, white noise is something that for people that have new babies, they'll play white noise for the babies to sleep at night. That's why I'm aware of it. Okay. Did you just have a baby?

36:06 Tim Stoddart Well, my son is two and a half, so he still has the sound machine. And then we had a daughter 10 months ago. Congrats. So like there's just, there's fucking sound machines like all over in my upstairs. It's like two different worlds that I live in. There's the downstairs, which is like the normal life.

36:25 Eric Lam And then there's the upstairs, which is just, so that's my life right now. That's so funny. Well, congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, I'm blessed. Basically, white noise is a sound that people play for their babies. It helps them sleep, but some people also listen to it for themselves. There's other sounds also like rain waves that people use. Green noise is kind of like a derivative of white noise. It's a similar sound. It just highlights a different frequency range and it got really popular on TikTok. And if you look at the Google Trends or the Google Trends, the chart, basically you can see just like a run-up. And I took a screenshot of it when it was having that run-up. And I was like, hey, like this seems really interesting. People are probably Googling it and I'll just build a website around it and I'll put it out on Spotify, Apple Music, those platforms and just see what happens. The upstart costs, I think were like $20, $25, something like that. So it was like anybody could really do this and I'll just see what happens. I'm taking a bet, but it's calculated risk. There could be asymmetric upside to it. So like I could lose $25 or I can make infinitely more. Who knows? We'll see what happens. So build a website and just included links to the Spotify and Apple Music and the… Is the website still up? Yeah. What's the website? I think it's called greennoisesleep.com. I don't check it very often, but it is up. Is it populating? Yeah. So yeah, I put up the website. The website didn't really drive much traffic, but I got natural momentum on the streaming services because people were searching for it. Basically, people were going from TikTok and then they were Googling it and then they were going to Spotify, Apple Music or Amazon Unlimited and they were basically searching for these sounds. And there wasn't much in the market at the time. So I was just kind of early and I hit this trend and people have been just streaming it while they sleep, I guess, or maybe like while they're studying. I don't know what the use case is completely, but yeah, I mean, it made money in the first month. I think it made like $300 and I put like $20, $25 into it. And now it's gotten up to $750 and I'm like, I'll take it. $750 a month? No, I think it's $750 in the aggregate. In total? Yeah. Cool. But how long ago did you put it up? I put it up, I think like three months ago or something like that, but I haven't had to do anything. I literally just put it up and that's it. I didn't do anything else. And there you go. And so that's the type of idea that I like.

38:51 Tim Stoddart That is so cool. I agree. I don't have something that cool, mine is far less like sexy, but the LSAT is a test that lawyers have to take. It's like one of the hardest tests. And so I discovered this whole market of test prep courses. So it's basically tests that you take in order to prepare to take the test. And we put a website up and I wrote a couple of blog posts and I got crushed by a Google algorithm, which sucks, man, because I was like $750 a month I was getting up to. And then I don't know if you've ever played with Google before, I love SEO. I still think it is the winner, but one of the downsides to it is one day, sometimes for no reason at all, Google will just decide that they don't like you anymore. And so right as I was starting to feel good about it, I got completely crushed. I went to zero, basically. It sucks.

39:51 Eric Lam Did you ever find out why they crushed you? What the reason was?

39:55 Tim Stoddart Yeah, it was called the better content upgrade. Something, something content. But even still, it's hard to totally know because basically what they wanted to do is make it so that experts were writing helpful content update. That's what it was called. So that the content that was written was actually credentialed by an expert in the space. And so I went back to the whole website and I reached out to all of these people and I reached out to the companies that were actually selling the courses that we were selling on the website and had them go through all the content and ask them if I could use their author bios in it to say, yes, this content has been verified by a credentialed expert in the space and it just didn't work. But the whole reason why I even say that story is because I find a lot of times, like sometimes I can feel like I'm not inauthentic, just like I'm bragging a little bit. And I don't ever want it to be that way. I'm very fortunate that I've had success with the companies that I've created, but people come to me sometimes and they just have this intimidation. Like, this is never going to work for me. I don't think what you're saying is real life. This doesn't actually work. I tried to put up a website here. I tried to put up a website there. It's just not true. It's like a real mental block, I think. And I know it because I had that. There was a time in my life where I thought, this is all bullshit. None of this stuff actually works. I'm just going to be in Philly and build houses my whole life. So I'm not really asking a question as much as I'm making an observation where sometimes when you see things and you try enough stuff, you'll discover that yes, this does work and there's opportunities everywhere. When I say everywhere, everywhere, the more time you spend researching, you see like, holy shit, there's so much stuff to do right now. And it just takes that one little victory to mentally convince yourself, like, oh, okay, this isn't make believe, this is real and I can do this. So like I said, that's not so much a question, but I'd love your feedback on that statement.

42:05 Eric Lam So I think that I never get over that. The thing of like, can I do this? This is all kind of BS. I don't know if I'm allowed to curse on here. Totally. Say whatever you want. Yeah. This is all bullshit. You did it because maybe you had something that you're not sharing or something like that and that's the reason why you're successful and I'm not. That whole I think that I still struggle with it. I've had some things that have been successful, but I'm like, can I do it again? Or was that a fluke? You know what I mean? I think that it's like this imposter syndrome thing that you never maybe get over and it'll exist some way in your life. And I think that you just kind of need to be optimistic and just kind of have hope for a better future, if that makes sense, and just kind of trial and error and just look at data and try to figure out what's going on. And I think that's the thing that I think is the most important error and just look at data and just be like, is this working? Is it not? If it's not working, don't take offense to it. Don't be emotional about it. Just move on and just try to go to the next thing. And maybe that'll work. Maybe it won't. But I think that framing it as all like a game that you have to figure out, like you're trying to crack the code and beat this game. That could be a helpful way to look at it as opposed to like, I need to make money. I need to make this work. And maybe I'm an entrepreneur, maybe I'm not. And it's kind of riding on this one thing working. Most entrepreneurs, they have multiple things that they've started before they've become successful. I think it's like two or three businesses before they've become successful. So it's like, I mean, you look at Elon Musk or Jack Dorsey or whatever, these major people, but it's like, don't look at them. Just focus on doing your own thing. The average, I think, is like two or three businesses to become successful. And just ignore everything online because everybody online or a lot of people, they're flexing their success. And it's not necessarily the truth behind the scenes, if that makes sense. They're putting things out that are going to get engagement and that are going to present them in a specific light that they want you to see them in. But it's not necessarily all of the ups and downs that they're experiencing on a day-to-day basis. Because some days you'll have days where you have a big issue, like what you're describing in your business, where you're making $750 a month, and then you kind of got slapped by the algorithm. That happens in every kind of business, whether it's Google or another company that's kind of like- Or something, whatever. Or you lose a big customer or whatever it is, or you get a bunch of refunds in a specific day. And those are down days, but that's just the nature of entrepreneurial life. You have ups and downs, you have high highs, you have low lows. You just got to kind of be agnostic to it, if that makes sense. So just try to be even keel and sit in the middle. And if you have a great high high day, try to ignore it. And then if you have a low low day, try to ignore that too. Just kind of sit in the middle, look at the data and try to be as unemotional as possible. So I guess that would be my take on it. I don't know if that's helpful, but that's how I try to look at it.

45:00 Tim Stoddart So helpful. So helpful. I've been doing this for a long time and it's tough to talk about this stuff, because like you said, nobody wants to listen to somebody that fails all the time. But I don't think people understand for every one success I have, I have at least 30 failures. And failures are like, they're like micro failures. It's like, shit, that didn't work, shit, that didn't work. And most nights I go to bed thinking like, nothing works. I don't actually know what I'm doing. But then as I've gotten older, I've come to the conclusion that that actually is the thing that is the skill. It's tinkering, it's iterating, it's coming to terms with the fact that it's okay to not know. It's just not okay to not keep learning. And I'm not a life coach here and so I'm stuttering a little bit. Forgive me to everybody listening as I stumble over this. But the thing that I have found that works for me is constant little fall forwards, just constantly. My whole life, I'm so anxious all the time because I'm just tripping over shit all the time. Just stumbling forward and then here we are and it's working out. I don't know

46:16 Eric Lam how else to put it other than that. I think you're exactly right. And back to the thing where you were talking about consistent learning. I think that's amazing that you read so many books and you're so dedicated to doing that and your parents instilled that in you. My parents didn't really. I kind of had to find it on my own actually through Tai Lopez's ads on YouTube, talking about knowledge and I was like, okay, this is actually kind of practical. I'm going to buy some books and I ended up buying books and reading them. Knowledge. Yeah. I did not like him, but I liked the message that he was kind of portraying. And yeah, I was like, this seems practical. I hated reading from college. It made me hate reading books. But anyways, I got into it and I was like, okay, this is actually really fun. If you find a topic that you're interested in, you learn about it and you just dedicate yourself to getting better and learning every day. And that's the same thing with the businesses. You have all these failures or everybody does. I have a lot of failures as well. But it's like you learn something from everyone. And sometimes you make mistakes that prior to going into it, you're like, I know I'm kind of like making a mistake going into this. I'm ignoring the specific thing that typically I wouldn't do. And then you maybe get screwed. And then you're like, okay, well, I should never ignore that. I should always look at that. And just like, even if it looks promising in the future, just like stick with my gut and my kind of like learnings that I've had in the past. But you have to just be like dedicated to this learning and trial and error and whether it's coming from books and other people's experiences or your own experience. I think that dedication to learning is so important. So yeah, to your point,

47:44 Tim Stoddart I think that's really important. Cool. What a great way to end the conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed talking to you, Eric. I really appreciate your time. Yeah, this was- Thank you for having me. No, my pleasure. Thanks for coming on. Okay, so let's do the podcast outro, right? We got explodingideas.co, not.com.co. Highly recommend subscribing to it. I've very much enjoyed it. Like I said, I think you're really onto something here. And then Eric Lam ideas on Twitter. And anything else that you want people to know about you before we wrap up?

48:22 Eric Lam I don't think so. Great speaking with you. And yeah, if you guys want to follow me on Twitter, I'd love to have you. If you'd like to subscribe to the newsletter, I would love to have you there as well. And I hope you guys get value from it. That's my main thing. I just want people to get value from the newsletter and Twitter and you get unique value from both channels. That's really kind of like what I'm trying to bring to the table as well. Every channel that I have, I want to be unique from the other channels. So you want to kind of like follow it all to get all the value, if that makes sense. So yeah, it's great to be here and thank you for having me.

48:55 Tim Stoddart Of course. Thank you everybody for listening. If you enjoy the show, leave us a rating on iTunes or Spotify. It's the best thing you can do to support the show. All of the links to the newsletter, to the Twitter and all the things that we talked about are going to be in the show notes at copybloggerpod.com. Thanks everyone. We'll talk to you next week.